Author Topic: Will it be "safe" for me to attend the auction this year?  (Read 2706 times)

Offline James The Dog

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Something I've found myself thinking about- last week on UKFur, someone mentioned that their dad was accompanying them to CF, and one person's advice was "don't take him into the auction" as well as some discussion about when a couple of old ladies walked in just as some porn came up on the big screen. I'm just wondering how things are going to be handled this year. As I've frustratingly had to miss the auction the past 2 years, just wondering if it will be safe to come in this year (is the adult stuff going to be either censored or held until the end), or is it better advised for me to avoid it again?

Offline Cosmo

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Re: Will it be "safe" for me to attend the auction this year?
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2012, 09:19:35 »
The current plan is to censor the adult art that's shown on the screen. Due to time constraints and not knowing how much art is going to show up, however, I can only promise to do our best. If needs be I'll put a warning up near the stage room and Art Show to tell people it's not censored, but I don't currently envisage it being a problem.
The art that is carried round the auction for people to have a closer look will not be censored, so I can't guarantee you won't see anything you don't like that way.
We won't be keeping the adult stuff until last. The reason we mix all the art up is to keep as many people in the room as possible because, as it's a charity auction, we obviously want to make as much as we can for them. Over the years we've managed to keep a pretty high attendance by doing it this way.
The Art Show will also not be censored, but like last year it will be split in to general art and adult art, so you should be able to avoid seeing stuff you don't want to see.
Hope this helps :)

Offline LevLion

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Re: Will it be "safe" for me to attend the auction this year?
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2012, 09:28:30 »
If someones being taken by their father then they should already make him aware of what there will be there after all adult art doesnt worry some people as much as 2 guys holding hands does. The assumption that older people will be more offended by such things is a bit of a silly thing anyway everyones different.
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Offline RizzoRattie

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Re: Will it be "safe" for me to attend the auction this year?
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2012, 09:59:38 »
Hi James,

As per previous comments, we have to take a very holistic view of the community that this convention is servicing, and whether you like it or not, a large aspect of that is adult artwork.  Regretably from your perspective, that means it causes offense, but unfortunately, when it comes down to the grind and we have to make a decision based on how it impacts one individual v's the majority,  and the thousands of pounds we can raise for our charity, the decision is very obvious.

Whilst the artwork in the show is going to be censored, the general view point is to not censor people, their interests, or why they are attending a convention - within reason.  Obviously we expect people to exercise common sense regarding public signs of affection, and them not waving certain artwork etc.  It would be prudent for this person going with their Father, as Lev suggested, to give them forewarning what the event is about, and what to possibly expect.  This is exactly what I have to do when I am negotiating with the hotel, as it means there is no margin for surprise once they are hosting ConFuzzled. 

I would like to highlight very clearly at this time, since you have raised it again, that the elderly ladies that entered into the auction last year should not even have been in the hotel in the first place, since we had paid for venue exclusivity, and they a) did not become exposed to any adult artwork in the 2 minutes they were present and b) were ejected immediately once it was realised they were there.  The hotel were as a result of this incident, in breach of their contract with us.  This is why, although I will not disclose further information, we were reimbursed a significant amount of money which was then subsequently used in investing into the new venue.  This reiterates the point earlier that we felt no need to censor the general content in the show, because people from outside of the community, apart from bar staff whom were fully briefed in advance, should not have been there in the fist place.

If you genuinely feel you cannot attend the live art auction, you obviously have the opportunity to bid on items you are interested in during the art show.  Unfortunately, there is a risk that if the item you are interested in does go to live auction and you do not attend the show, that you miss the piece but unfortunately, we find that on the whole, this process works very fairly for the majority.  Hopefully this wont happy to you though and all pieces you are interested in you will place a winning bid.

Kind Regards,

Rizzorat



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Offline lamar

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Re: Will it be "safe" for me to attend the auction this year?
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2012, 13:23:02 »
I'm not sure I understand the objection to censoring adult art in a general attendance event, or asking it to be segregated into the last portion of the auction. It's won't remove that art from bidding, and I don't see how it would reduce the amount of money raised. It may well increase because people who avoid adult art may be more willing to attend and bid.

Also, I want to make it clear, James is not 'one individual'. I share his opinion on this, and I would be surprised if it was just the two of us. Additionally, I had assumed from previous comments that the Art Auction was going to be censored or have Adult Art segregated this year because of complaints raised last year, and I am entirely surprised at this announcement that Adult Art may be presented un-censored in the middle of a general attendance event.

If the person presenting it for the auction can't censor it in time for the auction, it should not go in the auction. It's that simple and how pretty much every other fandom convention does it.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2012, 13:38:18 by lamar »

Offline Polo

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Re: Will it be "safe" for me to attend the auction this year?
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2012, 13:51:29 »
It is alarming that the 'holistic' view is the only (or, even more amusingly) best way to raise money for charity is to peddle pornography to furries.  Does the charity know this?

It strikes me as holding the diverse community in rather low regard.  I have been to events with nary a nadger in sight..
« Last Edit: March 29, 2012, 13:54:46 by Polo »

Offline LevLion

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Re: Will it be "safe" for me to attend the auction this year?
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2012, 15:38:54 »
The event is not general attendance its an over 18's event (the whole con that is).

Also the art show will be segregated and it was not implied it wouldn't be.

The problem with censoring for the auction is more a logistical one. The way the show and auction work means that until the close of the art show we don't know which pieces of art will make it into the auction. This means there is no advance warning so we cant censor or have artists censor their work in advance it has to be done as we enter them into our auction systems. We will always try our best but last year there was an incredible amount of art to process and the time it takes to do it all ready for the auction means we have to prioritise. But as stated we do not really want artists to feel pressured into censoring their work which some hold personal and expressive.

As for the view on raising money, we favour no type of art. It has been in no way implied that we favour adult art for making money. But in a similar way we will not discriminate either as we want to cater for all interests.
I for one welcome our Muppet overloards.

Offline Tungro

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Re: Will it be "safe" for me to attend the auction this year?
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2012, 16:21:20 »
Simple facts in a simple summary.

  • We will continue showing mature items in the art show and in the art auction
  • The art show will have the mature art separated from the general art
  • The mature and general art that make it into the auction will be mixed together to keep interest for all throughout the auction
  • Every effort will be made to censor the mature art in the art auction display system, but this is not guaranteed due to time constraints
  • Should there not be enough time, then suitable information will be on display at the auction before the auction starts warning people of this
  • Art shown round to people in the show will not be censored. If you don't want to see it, don't ask for a closer look

Quote
It may well increase because people who avoid adult art may be more willing to attend and bid
I do not agree. I believe that most of those that are not interested in the mature art simply chat to their friend or look away, until something that they are interested in comes up. I think those that are very against seeing any kind of mature art, even by accident, are in the minority. It's almost like forcing the adult channels on TV to be blocked just in case you hit ProgUp/ProgDn and reach one by accident (even the "preview" channels can be bad enough).
« Last Edit: March 29, 2012, 16:44:16 by Tungro »

Offline Cosmo

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Re: Will it be "safe" for me to attend the auction this year?
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2012, 17:35:05 »
Additionally, I had assumed from previous comments that the Art Auction was going to be censored or have Adult Art segregated this year because of complaints raised last year, and I am entirely surprised at this announcement that Adult Art may be presented un-censored in the middle of a general attendance event.
As lev has already pointed out, the convention is not general attendance, it is over 18s only, however, as I've already pointed out, we are planning to censor it this year. The reason I won't guarantee it is that sometimes things go wrong. Last year, for instance, we were relying on somebody else's MacBook as the one we normally used had broken. This meant we weren't able to set things up until after the art show had closed and because of that ran out of time and couldn't censor it. It was never the plan to have it in uncensored. We should have warned people at the start of the auction but as were already late starting we forgot to announce it (posters would have been no good as the audience were already in their seats), it was a mistake but also a lesson learned. This year we've taken steps to overcome it by creating an auction database that doesn't rely on a mac being available to work and we also have more staff in the art show, which is why I don't envisage it being a problem.
I have never said that the art that's taken to bidders so they can look closer would be censored. You will be able to see this coming and if you don't want to see it you can look away.
If the person presenting it for the auction can't censor it in time for the auction, it should not go in the auction. It's that simple and how pretty much every other fandom convention does it.
The person who presents it isn't the person who censors it, we are. We take a photo and load it into a database and then censor it. The art is always uncensored in the Art Show, though segregated in to a separate area. It would be very unfair of us, and would probably elicit more complaints, if we were to bar art from the auction because we were having problems on our end.
It is alarming that the 'holistic' view is the only (or, even more amusingly) best way to raise money for charity is to peddle pornography to furries.  Does the charity know this?

It strikes me as holding the diverse community in rather low regard.  I have been to events with nary a nadger in sight..
I could probably have contextualised the idea of mixing the art up better. The idea is not that mixing pornography in will keep people in the room, rather that mixing the more popular art work in as we do keeps people longer, whereas if we segregated then the more popular stuff by better known artists would get sold and a large proportion of the audience would leave (something we have witnessed happening). The idea is both that we make more money for charity by retaining a larger audience, but also expose people to art (including general interest) by less well known artists that they may not have seen or heard of before.

Just to reiterate, though, the plan is to censor the art that is displayed on the screen, as long as there are no unforeseen circumstances which prevent us from doing so.