Author Topic: Headless Fursuiters...  (Read 24007 times)

Offline Fairlight

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Re: Headless Fursuiters...
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2013, 23:44:20 »
So I guess there needs to be more understanding on both sides instead of blaming. I'm quite sure none of the two "sides" wants to be offensive... it's just different countries with different opinions.

This. The UK is a place where "The Pub" is the only place where people can escape their usual strict social rule set. For many Brits a con is like going to the pub with good friends.

I have no doubt that any of the headless guys would have never have done that in the city centre. But they'd do it at the con for the same reason as a continental fur wouldn't have a problem losing the head when at home.

I had a similar debate earlier today about Kigus and why in the UK they're fine at some events where in continental Europe they'd be seen as unsuitable for the hotel/con.

For Brits, while at the con, this is as far as there concerned, their home that they share with some mates for a while.

At least that's what I think, knowing both Brits and Germans ^.^

A lot more people these days also talk in suit. Also a big no go not to long ago.

Personally I'd keep my head on at cons. But that's my choice to make, and someone else's is theirs to make. Fursuiters are there so they have fun. If you also have fun because of it, good, but it gives you no right to make demands.

Edit: That said, I agree with Dhary that we should try and "educate" in this case. I don't mind headless suiters, but I love a good con video as much as everyone, and headless guys in lots of shots are not ideal.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2013, 23:51:11 by Fairlight »

Offline Athesis

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Re: Headless Fursuiters...
« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2013, 23:53:02 »
Thank you, Dhary - You hit absolutely the point I may was not able to say.

I would also add one of my thoughts about it: If there is a Fursuiter who has an 'real' medical issue, he maybe would not be recognized early enough to help him before he breaks down - It makes people more non-sensitive to help those who really need help. It is just another headless Fursuit ...


Edit:
@Fairlight
Kigu? This pyjama-animal witch you was wearing last night? I was absolutely fine with it - It was ment to be like this, so it  dosn't ruin anything.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2013, 23:56:44 by Athesis »

Offline Snackcat

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Re: Headless Fursuiters...
« Reply #32 on: June 05, 2013, 00:18:51 »
Due to the obligations of my role on this convention, I am forced to splitt my reply to this into two seperate parts.

First, I'll answer officially for the security of ConFuzzled:

There can not and will not be a written rule, that a fursuiter may not take off his head in public. However, since a large number of attendees (suiters an non-suiters) felt genuily disturbed by the unusually high amount of fursuiters we will focus more on this point during beginner-panels and most likely there will be a guideline for fursuiters hanging out in the headless-lounges. Thank you for keeping this discussion polite!


Now I'd like to state my personal opinion. The following does NOT represent the opinion of ConFuzzled ltd. or any convention department!

Back in the days, there was this unwritten rule, that fursuiters never take their head off in public. That's why the headless-lounge is called headless-lounge. This is why there are rules, that allow fursuiters to run around without a badge. That's why we protect their anonymity. I'm a bit offended by people that play the "medical issue card" on this problem, since nobody would ever even get to the idea to deny someone with a medical problem (overheating, dehydration, etc.) taking his head off in public.

All the complaints were about people taking their head off without any reason at all. If you have a medical problem, you don't sit down at the bar and get drunk. Also you don't walk into the restaurant and eat a full meal in a half pulled-down fursuit. Or smoke in fursuit. That's just not what the majority of our community accepts. At many conventions, this would be softly enforced to be honest. I don't see a reason for a written rule about this, but I also don't understand those few suiters that seem to think of this to be perfectly fine. If many of those I spend a convention with tell me, they don't want to see that in public, isn't it a bit arrogant to say "I don't give a f***"? Sure as hell it should make you think.

One of the suggestions regarding the reason for such a unusual large number was, that we had a lot of first timers, and since we live in a time in which every beginner can afford at least a simple fursuit, many walked around without any experience or background knowledge.

I think that might be part of the reason. All I can say is, that in all my years at conventions I've never seen so many headless suiters in public. (Without medical reason :p) And yes, that ruined a lot of photos and videos, because you may not care how you look without your head on, but most suiters do and their photos will be ruined if there are headless suiters in the background.

Last but not least: of course it's your choice what you do with your fursuit, but the furry community is based on the "we", and not on the ego of a few.


I can agree with so much of this, as well as the the more "magical" aspect, there are many practical pointers, and I'm glad someone can see them.

It's a relief that someone else has noticed the uncaring attitude of the headless suiters, I know we are a community of tolerance and diverse views, but there IS a whiff of a disregard for others in this.

Offline Fairlight

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Re: Headless Fursuiters...
« Reply #33 on: June 05, 2013, 00:24:55 »
Yeah, my raccoon thing with the squeaker. ^.^

It gets philosophical quickly... what is OK and what is not. If I have a partial and take the head off.. is that OK, does this only ruin magic if there is a body suit? Just feet paws and tail is fine, many do that. Where is the borderline?

For me, it comes down to the body suit. Headless partials I'm more OK with than headless full suits. But is is a very subjective thing. That makes discussions so tricky...

Offline Tenderpaws

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Re: Headless Fursuiters...
« Reply #34 on: June 05, 2013, 00:42:27 »
Due to the obligations of my role on this convention, I am forced to splitt my reply to this into two seperate parts.

First, I'll answer officially for the security of ConFuzzled:

There can not and will not be a written rule, that a fursuiter may not take off his head in public. However, since a large number of attendees (suiters an non-suiters) felt genuily disturbed by the unusually high amount of fursuiters we will focus more on this point during beginner-panels and most likely there will be a guideline for fursuiters hanging out in the headless-lounges. Thank you for keeping this discussion polite!


Now I'd like to state my personal opinion. The following does NOT represent the opinion of ConFuzzled ltd. or any convention department!

Back in the days, there was this unwritten rule, that fursuiters never take their head off in public. That's why the headless-lounge is called headless-lounge. This is why there are rules, that allow fursuiters to run around without a badge. That's why we protect their anonymity. I'm a bit offended by people that play the "medical issue card" on this problem, since nobody would ever even get to the idea to deny someone with a medical problem (overheating, dehydration, etc.) taking his head off in public.

All the complaints were about people taking their head off without any reason at all. If you have a medical problem, you don't sit down at the bar and get drunk. Also you don't walk into the restaurant and eat a full meal in a half pulled-down fursuit. Or smoke in fursuit. That's just not what the majority of our community accepts. At many conventions, this would be softly enforced to be honest. I don't see a reason for a written rule about this, but I also don't understand those few suiters that seem to think of this to be perfectly fine. If many of those I spend a convention with tell me, they don't want to see that in public, isn't it a bit arrogant to say "I don't give a f***"? Sure as hell it should make you think.

One of the suggestions regarding the reason for such a unusual large number was, that we had a lot of first timers, and since we live in a time in which every beginner can afford at least a simple fursuit, many walked around without any experience or background knowledge.

I think that might be part of the reason. All I can say is, that in all my years at conventions I've never seen so many headless suiters in public. (Without medical reason :p) And yes, that ruined a lot of photos and videos, because you may not care how you look without your head on, but most suiters do and their photos will be ruined if there are headless suiters in the background.

Last but not least: of course it's your choice what you do with your fursuit, but the furry community is based on the "we", and not on the ego of a few.

Dhary, your personal views pretty much match exactly my own.. The medical condition card is so lame and old... I don't recall anyone pulling heads off if in the parade, so why when standing around would it be harder.

I would be up for running a high detail fursuit panel for beginners or the inexperienced. If anything to highlight some courtesy to others and ways in which you can have fun in suit without having to not wear all of it.

I was personally out in suit almost every hour of the con, and I did not need to be half suited to eat, take it off and let it dry ect. Temperatures at the con were rather cool but I guess I do have many years of this kind of exposure to warmth in suit.
The, "we don't care" attitude to those who do give a damn is also very very ignorant, especially when you have people *out of the kindness of their heart* taking the time to photograph and video the fursuiters who do actually get it, it's actually very insulting.
Please understand that when I have a picture of my costume / character, I  do not want to see this kind stuff in the background as it ruins the entire point of costuming for me and others.
Again. My own words do not reflect that of Confuzzled.

Offline rocky_raccoon

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Re: Headless Fursuiters...
« Reply #35 on: June 05, 2013, 00:43:55 »
i absolutely agree with Dhary.

everything is personal choice - yes, but unwritten rules are there due to the majority feeling of the community - we have headless lounges for a reason. I have on times even said i would rather pass out than break character (though yes it sounds stupid and i would de-head if it got to that point - it conveys my particularly strong feelings for this particular topic.)

When we suit - we bring a character to life. For me, that is the entire point of 'suiting up' - we don't wear suits like some kind of sweater - its a character - and if, unnecessarily - you take your head off - you're breaking that character - and the character becomes insignificant - pointless, and effectively fake.

I know my safe limits, and - as i did last night, when i reach them, i head to my room - head on, and when the door is closed - i de-suit.

We are all entitled to our opinions - but as has been mentioned, the majority don't wish to see this to that degree. It was not especially hot this weekend, and it ruins many many photo opportunities and video shots  - spoiling opportunities for those who wish to be seen, and be recorded bringing their character to life.

Offline Tenderpaws

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Re: Headless Fursuiters...
« Reply #36 on: June 05, 2013, 00:52:49 »
I can say that I've never seen so many headless fursuiters before this edition of CfZ.  >:(

It was kinda depressing to be surrounded by headless people when you try to perform....and you may think it doesn't ruin the magic, but it's ruined tons of pics & videos rushes for sure.

About the weather : it was very windy and not very warm (unlike last year or any other con like Eurofurence in summer) and inside the venue it was VERY cold.
In few words, PERFECT conditions for fursuiting.

A lot of new fursuiters attended this year for sure, but before performing get some training or don't wear it. A fursuit is not a mandatory to attend to a furry convention.

Yes, I to was also upset to see this and for me it was the only dull point of the convention IMHO. I personally don't feel it is that difficult to respect others and depart the main areas when de heading.
I also took footage of the  con from a GoPro cam for some PR work as Brok.. Now I will have to spend extra time just cutting scenes and making them gel back together.

I would hate to see a professional, such as yourself lose interest in filming at ConFuzzled due to the actions of some people who are either ignorant or un experienced in this field.
The show must go on, I would rather crawl away than ruin that moment.

Thanks for you input Vector and bringing your camera equipment along.

Tender Paws.
(All views are that of my own and do not reflect that of ConFuzzled)
« Last Edit: June 05, 2013, 00:55:52 by Tenderpaws »

Offline Dhary Montecore

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Re: Headless Fursuiters...
« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2013, 01:28:55 »
@Tenderpaws: If you'd be willing to do such a panel, please, by all means, contact delph :3

Offline Tenderpaws

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Re: Headless Fursuiters...
« Reply #38 on: June 05, 2013, 02:02:41 »
@Tenderpaws: If you'd be willing to do such a panel, please, by all means, contact delph :3

Done and done! :)

Offline aurora

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Re: Headless Fursuiters...
« Reply #39 on: June 05, 2013, 02:11:05 »
I was just thinking:

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen Fursuit;D

That's just me being silly.

As a first-timer last year I learned that the more physical activity you do while wearing a fursuit the quicker you overheat.

A gentle to moderate breeze outdoors gives better cooling than an electric fan indoors.


Offline rab

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Re: Headless Fursuiters...
« Reply #40 on: June 05, 2013, 09:08:25 »
I thinks my take on it is , yes there's no written rule - there's a written recommendation in the conbook's fursuiter guide page to not de-head in public areas, with both the main reasons listed - some people get upset by headlessness, and it spoils/looks odd in photos/video  - with the understandable exceptions for emergencies.

Perhaps , if you do choose to disregard this recommendation and dehead , do what you can not to bounce past an active camera or similar and keep it minimal - as Dhary mentioned . Popping it off to quick cooldown/waiting in lengthy queues etc , generally np , taking it off to lounge at the bar or feed place .. perhaps not so much ok .

Offline Vector

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Re: Headless Fursuiters...
« Reply #41 on: June 05, 2013, 09:41:19 »
I think Dhary got it right and I totally agree with him.

The most disturbing thing in the whole week is that female fursuiter, headless, eating in fursuit in the restaurant.

And we talk here about a 4 stars hotel/restaurant...  I think it's really insulting for the restaurant staff.

And also please respect your character : do not go to restaurant in fursuit and headless... That rule should be enforced next year, at least in the restaurant, especially if the convention shares the space with another con.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2013, 09:45:45 by Vector »

Offline Amethyst

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Re: Headless Fursuiters...
« Reply #42 on: June 05, 2013, 10:27:04 »
I didn't take my head off, though I almost did when I heard a buzzing inside it ( D:) it turned out to just be my badge running against my fleece though.

Like Mangusu said; some people don't have rooms or where at other hotels. They can't get anywhere to change! I had this problem last year when I was attending only. I had to get half dressed in the toilets and walk to the fursuit lounge with Khaazbaars feet, legs and tail on, holding the rest of the suit.

If you find headless suits in your photos, either change your angle to get them out of frame, or ask them politely too move. Unless you're taking film, you'd only be moving them for a minute and they'd probably be ok with that. A lot of the people I saw go headless were outside and they kept to the benches and out of the way.


Offline yagfox

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Re: Headless Fursuiters...
« Reply #43 on: June 05, 2013, 10:29:36 »
I'm not sure it's as widespread as billed, I was pleading with people to take their heads off in the queue for the laser photoshoot if they felt at all uncomfortable, as we didn't want anyone passing out,  and by far the vast majority toughed it out! :)




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Re: Headless Fursuiters...
« Reply #44 on: June 05, 2013, 10:44:17 »
Must admit, I had to re edit some videos I was working on last night because headless suiters could be seen. I think the only times I took mine off out of the headless lounge was in the corner of the Fursuit Fiasco and whilst queueing in the Laser Photoshoot. Was my first time ever in a suit and I surprised myself on how long I could last in it by Sunday.

My head has two fans near the ears which both extract. Air is sucked in through the mouth and it makes a massive difference.