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ConFuzzled Forums => Feedback => Topic started by: Bezel on May 29, 2014, 12:37:38

Title: Nightclub last admittance policy
Post by: Bezel on May 29, 2014, 12:37:38
A quick question - why is there a nightclub rule that the last admittance is 15 minutes before closing ?

Surely, if someone goes in 30 seconds before the end of the last set, that's their problem ?

It didn't normally cause Security an issue until the last night. As the club was supposed to be closing at 02:00, security duly stopped people going in at around 01:45. However, BBF overran, and the club ended going on somewhat later until the hotel requested it was shut down. This meant that after 02:00, we had annoyed people at the door wondering why the club was still going, and why they couldn't go in.

There may be a great reason for this rule, but it often gets people annoyed (expecially those in suit who may not know the time). I just wonder if this could be reviewed / clarified / scrapped ?
Title: Re: Nightclub last admittance policy
Post by: Davuu on May 29, 2014, 14:47:35
 
 we had a problem on one of the dances on...Saturday, some of our party went into the fursuit lounge to cool off before the end and when they came back out to rejoin the dance were told they couldnt go back in, and then also told the fursuit lounge was shut 0_o

I understand perhaps to stop new people coming in, but as there is no other entrance to and from the fursuit lounge and no-one said if you leave you cant come back ... and as fursuits dont have watches.. it was a bit upsetting to not be allowed back in when you only went to cool off.

im not sure why the rule exists? if you need to shut the club at 2am, then once the music stops then people would naturally leave anyhow... ? im sure theres a reason ....?
Title: Re: Nightclub last admittance policy
Post by: Pizza on May 29, 2014, 15:52:05
Yeah I will say I was a bit annoyed that I left BBF's dance to cool down a little, leaving all my friends inside, and then was told I wasn't allowed back in as they were closing in 10 minutes. I then saw people being let it at about 5 past so wandered in no problem after wasting 15 minutes sat outside.

I was also told I wasn't allowed to take my balloon into the night club so went all the way back to my room in suit (2nd floor right at the end of the corridor) came all the way back to see other people being let in with balloons.

Seems the security on the door all had different rules regarding some things.
Title: Re: Nightclub last admittance policy
Post by: Bezel on May 29, 2014, 16:15:45
Yeah I will say I was a bit annoyed that I left BBF's dance to cool down a little, leaving all my friends inside, and then was told I wasn't allowed back in as they were closing in 10 minutes. I then saw people being let it at about 5 past so wandered in no problem after wasting 15 minutes sat outside.

I was also told I wasn't allowed to take my balloon into the night club so went all the way back to my room in suit (2nd floor right at the end of the corridor) came all the way back to see other people being let in with balloons.

Seems the security on the door all had different rules regarding some things.

Hiya,

I'm sorry you had problems at the nightclub and I'd like to try and explain the two items you mentioned...

Regarding BBF's dance, there's a standing rule (posted on the nightclub door) that the last admission is 15 minutes before the nightclub closes. As far as security knew, the set was supposed to be finishing at 02:00, the same as every other set, and we therefore stopped people going in at around 01:45. However it... overran slightly, and it took a direct request from the hotel at 02:15 before the nightclub was actually closed. When it became obvious that the club wasn't going to be closing at 02:00, we checked with ConOps who basically said we should let people in - so there was a period when you wouldn't have been allowed back in, followed by another period when you would.

Balloons should *not* have been allowed into the nightclub - this was originally checked with the nightclub staff who were concerned about potential damage to some very expensive equipment. However, there wasn't a written policy for that - it was only checked when the first suiter with a balloon actually arrived - and it seems security failed to pass this restriction onto each other, so that some knew about it and some didn't. I'll put my hand up and take the blame for that one.

I can only apologise for any problems or disappointment caused, but these were both circumstances we hadn't anticipated.
Title: Re: Nightclub last admittance policy
Post by: Davuu on May 29, 2014, 16:24:17
 I guess balloons in the dark could be seen as a hazard if someone were to trip? though... not so much balloons but I did see something quite ....daft....  a group of people took a dark coloured tennis ball onto the night club floor and were throwing it around between themselves... leading to scuttling around on the dance floor in the dark trying to find it.....

 if you want to play a ball game like that play it outside in the light! I almost tripped on it as I couldnt see it on the floor in the dark!  if I fall in suit,  apart from maybe breaking a seam, im relatively padded but if someone out of suit would have been jumping up and down dancing and landed on it, they could have smashed their head on the floor, common sense people!  I was meant to pass it onto security but I forgot, so thats my mistake. 

 
 
Title: Re: Nightclub last admittance policy
Post by: rakhan on May 29, 2014, 21:57:59
I was also told I wasn't allowed to take my balloon into the night club so went all the way back to my room in suit (2nd floor right at the end of the corridor) came all the way back to see other people being let in with balloons.


Balloons should *not* have been allowed into the nightclub - this was originally checked with the nightclub staff who were concerned about potential damage to some very expensive equipment. However, there wasn't a written policy for that

I believe the potential issue with balloons was primally metallic ones as it was in a Risk Assessment regarding the lasers.
It would make sense to have a blanket NO so that everyone is under the same rules, as you say perhaps this is a point for next year.
Title: Re: Nightclub last admittance policy
Post by: yagfox on May 30, 2014, 00:17:54
I was also told I wasn't allowed to take my balloon into the night club so went all the way back to my room in suit (2nd floor right at the end of the corridor) came all the way back to see other people being let in with balloons.


Balloons should *not* have been allowed into the nightclub - this was originally checked with the nightclub staff who were concerned about potential damage to some very expensive equipment. However, there wasn't a written policy for that

I believe the potential issue with balloons was primally metallic ones as it was in a Risk Assessment regarding the lasers.
It would make sense to have a blanket NO so that everyone is under the same rules, as you say perhaps this is a point for next year.

I don't know if the ban was related to the lasers. It was on our risk assesment that foil balloons were a potential hazard that the LSO on duty was told to look for. I only spotted one foil balloon at the whole con, and it was tied to a suiter too low down as to present a hazard in the nightclub.

Certainly a ban does remove that potential hazard, though non foil balloons don't present a problem.
Title: Re: Nightclub last admittance policy
Post by: Swolf on May 30, 2014, 00:23:52
Balloons are a no as i think either last year or the year before one ballon hit a par can (which is lit by a very warm halogen bulb) burst and then fused with the glass lens due to the heat, was a nightmare to get off before returning to the hire company.

As for the admittance policy I believe the rule is no new admittance 15mins prior to end, however i wasn't aware that existing attendees were being turned away after getting "cooled" down / taking a short break.
Unsure as to how to address this as to track all the people coming and going ... would be a bit logistically tough, It is a point that would need to be discussed with the security and nightclub teams.
 
Title: Re: Nightclub last admittance policy
Post by: yagfox on May 30, 2014, 00:27:32
Balloons are a no as i think either last year or the year before one ballon hit a par can (which is lit by a very warm halogen bulb) burst and then fused with the glass lens due to the heat, was a nightmare to get off before returning to the hire company.

As for the admittance policy I believe the rule is no new admittance 15mins prior to end, however i wasn't aware that existing attendees were being turned away after getting "cooled" down / taking a short break.
Unsure as to how to address this as to track all the people coming and going ... would be a bit logistically tough, It is a point that would need to be discussed with the security and nightclub teams.

I suspect as everyone now knows, it won't be an issue! :) It was written on the door, but I have to admit I didn't notice it until it was brought to my attention.
Title: Re: Nightclub last admittance policy
Post by: Pizza on May 30, 2014, 00:31:09
Yes I was the suiter with the foil love heart balloon tied to my tail. I thought i'd ask before going in as i'm sure there is something about foil balloons and lasers... I asked and was told no balloons at all, metallic, foil, rubber, small, large, helium whatever. Then saw my friend in there with one. I'm not annoyed about it or anything it was more just an "Oh dammit XD" moment more than anything. Maybe just have a sign outside that says "NO BALLOONS!" so it's clear and general for everyone to know and so security know it's a rule.

With the BBF dance, no worries. I was just really confused at the time and wondered if there was any particular reason for them not letting me in the first time. Thanks for clearing that up.
Title: Re: Nightclub last admittance policy
Post by: Bezel on May 30, 2014, 08:16:57
As for the admittance policy I believe the rule is no new admittance 15mins prior to end, however i wasn't aware that existing attendees were being turned away after getting "cooled" down / taking a short break.
Unsure as to how to address this as to track all the people coming and going ... would be a bit logistically tough, It is a point that would need to be discussed with the security and nightclub teams.
I can't think of any foolproof way to track suiters coming out to cool down and returning, as opposed to new suiters. Even if something like a wristband was introduced, it's highly open to abuse, let alone a potential logistical nightmare to implement.

That's the reason for my OP - why does this 15 minute rule even exist ? Can't we just dispense with it ? Security will still be enforcing the maximum capacity regulation, so that shouldn't be a problem.
Title: Re: Nightclub last admittance policy
Post by: Rwylin on May 30, 2014, 09:56:11
i to second the scrapping of the 15 min rule, if people want to go in seconds before the last dance then they should of gone in earlier
Title: Re: Nightclub last admittance policy
Post by: Cheetah on May 30, 2014, 13:23:32
The reason why BBF overran for a couple of minutes was that we had some annoying technical difficulties resulting in BBF starting with a delay, and so we asked if we can have a bit of extra time to make up for it ...

I totally had no idea there was something like a 15-minute-policy, and I met quite a few people who were hit by it rather unexpectedly. I can confirm it caused quite a bit of frustration - it was a recurring conversation topic at the bar that night.

I would suggest scrapping that policy. It makes some sense at a REAL nightclub that charges a cover fee (where admitting people late would cause demands for refunds), and where you might have actual crowd management issues with queues in front of closed doors. But I see no advantage for such a policy if it's just a ballroom at a furry con.
Title: Re: Nightclub last admittance policy
Post by: Axle on May 30, 2014, 16:54:56
I was also told I wasn't allowed to take my balloon into the night club so went all the way back to my room in suit (2nd floor right at the end of the corridor) came all the way back to see other people being let in with balloons.


Balloons should *not* have been allowed into the nightclub - this was originally checked with the nightclub staff who were concerned about potential damage to some very expensive equipment. However, there wasn't a written policy for that

I believe the potential issue with balloons was primally metallic ones as it was in a Risk Assessment regarding the lasers.
It would make sense to have a blanket NO so that everyone is under the same rules, as you say perhaps this is a point for next year.

I don't know if the ban was related to the lasers. It was on our risk assesment that foil balloons were a potential hazard that the LSO on duty was told to look for. I only spotted one foil balloon at the whole con, and it was tied to a suiter too low down as to present a hazard in the nightclub.

Certainly a ban does remove that potential hazard, though non foil balloons don't present a problem.

I certainly only mentioned helium filled foil and un-tethered balloons to security when asked due to the lasers, but definitely heard from attendees that they were being turned away with all balloons. So I can only assume a mis-communication there at some point on changeover, but that can be sorted for next year.
Title: Re: Nightclub last admittance policy
Post by: Pizza on May 31, 2014, 18:07:28
I was also told I wasn't allowed to take my balloon into the night club so went all the way back to my room in suit (2nd floor right at the end of the corridor) came all the way back to see other people being let in with balloons.


Balloons should *not* have been allowed into the nightclub - this was originally checked with the nightclub staff who were concerned about potential damage to some very expensive equipment. However, there wasn't a written policy for that

I believe the potential issue with balloons was primally metallic ones as it was in a Risk Assessment regarding the lasers.
It would make sense to have a blanket NO so that everyone is under the same rules, as you say perhaps this is a point for next year.

I don't know if the ban was related to the lasers. It was on our risk assesment that foil balloons were a potential hazard that the LSO on duty was told to look for. I only spotted one foil balloon at the whole con, and it was tied to a suiter too low down as to present a hazard in the nightclub.

Certainly a ban does remove that potential hazard, though non foil balloons don't present a problem.

I certainly only mentioned helium filled foil and un-tethered balloons to security when asked due to the lasers, but definitely heard from attendees that they were being turned away with all balloons. So I can only assume a mis-communication there at some point on changeover, but that can be sorted for next year.

I know for fact I asked security on the nightclub door if I could come in with a foil helium balloon tied to my tail and they asked crew in the nightclub (Axle) a totally different question (untethered balloon) As me and Axle spoke about it afterward. Have no idea what that was about. I found security this year to be very over the top with a lot of things especially the admittance and restriction policies. It was intimidating sometimes and maybe they could have worded things better. There is a big difference between. "I'm really sorry, if you leave you cannot go back in as we have an admittance policy, you can see it written here on the door of the nightclub" and "You're not coming back in please step away from the doors"
Title: Re: Nightclub last admittance policy
Post by: Bezel on May 31, 2014, 19:54:12
I know for fact I asked security on the nightclub door if I could come in with a foil helium balloon tied to my tail and they asked crew in the nightclub (Axle) a totally different question (untethered balloon) As me and Axle spoke about it afterward. Have no idea what that was about. I found security this year to be very over the top with a lot of things especially the admittance and restriction policies. It was intimidating sometimes and maybe they could have worded things better. There is a big difference between. "I'm really sorry, if you leave you cannot go back in as we have an admittance policy, you can see it written here on the door of the nightclub" and "You're not coming back in please step away from the doors"
Foil balloons can be dangerous with the lasers, rubber ones can be dangerous with the parcans. The easiest approach would seem to be "No balloons" - full stop.

Re-admittance is a tricky thing as we can't realistically differentiate between people going back into the club and those going in for the first time, especially as we have multiple different teams of security on the doors during the night (and one fluffy grey wolf can look like another fluffy grey wolf). As this seems to revolve around the "last admittance 15 minutes before the nightclub closes" rule, and since I can't find anyone who knows why this rule exists, hopefully it will be scrapped for next year and this problem won't exist.

As regards the attitude of security, I'd like to apologise on behalf of the team. If you have a problem with any of the team in the future - either with what they say, or how they behave, then I'd urge you to make a note of their name and discuss it with either of the Heads of Security (Dhary or Crimson). We do crew evaluations and any feedback can be discussed with the individual in question.

Title: Re: Nightclub last admittance policy
Post by: rakhan on May 31, 2014, 19:59:10
The easiest approach would seem to be "No balloons" - full stop.
As this seems to revolve around the "last admittance 15 minutes before the nightclub closes" rule, and since I can't find anyone who knows why this rule exists
That makes sense over all and if you do ever manage to find out the thought process about the 15 mins I'd be intrigued to know! :)
Title: Re: Nightclub last admittance policy
Post by: Pizza on May 31, 2014, 20:31:17
Foil balloons can be dangerous with the lasers, rubber ones can be dangerous with the parcans. The easiest approach would seem to be "No balloons" - full stop.

Re-admittance is a tricky thing as we can't realistically differentiate between people going back into the club and those going in for the first time, especially as we have multiple different teams of security on the doors during the night (and one fluffy grey wolf can look like another fluffy grey wolf). As this seems to revolve around the "last admittance 15 minutes before the nightclub closes" rule, and since I can't find anyone who knows why this rule exists, hopefully it will be scrapped for next year and this problem won't exist.

As regards the attitude of security, I'd like to apologise on behalf of the team. If you have a problem with any of the team in the future - either with what they say, or how they behave, then I'd urge you to make a note of their name and discuss it with either of the Heads of Security (Dhary or Crimson). We do crew evaluations and any feedback can be discussed with the individual in question.

I understand it's hard to take note of who comes in and who goes out of the night club but i'd like to think security can take note of someone in suit wearing a maids outfit, standing next to them in the make shift fursuit lounge for 30 seconds, then trying to get back inside. Pretty notable attire tbh XD And I didn't exactly do a lap of the con space and then try to get back in. In the end I know a lot of suiters got pissed with security being so over the top and started using the side door to go between fursuit lounge and dance which involved stepping over wires and equipment. Securitys general attitude has been brought up several times. Seems they were doing their job correctly but might need a bit of work on the social aspect of things, like I said, working things a little better.

I know I should have taken notes of names and passed them on. But I was in fursuit, it was the last dance, I was having fun with my friends. I didn't exactly have a pen and paper to hand. It wasn't a con ruining moment so I just got a little peeved off then moved on TBH It's worth flagging in my opinion only because i've seen other people noting securitys general attitude.
Title: Re: Nightclub last admittance policy
Post by: Dhary Montecore on May 31, 2014, 20:32:03
I know for fact I asked security on the nightclub door if I could come in with a foil helium balloon tied to my tail and they asked crew in the nightclub (Axle) a totally different question (untethered balloon) As me and Axle spoke about it afterward. Have no idea what that was about. I found security this year to be very over the top with a lot of things especially the admittance and restriction policies. It was intimidating sometimes and maybe they could have worded things better. There is a big difference between. "I'm really sorry, if you leave you cannot go back in as we have an admittance policy, you can see it written here on the door of the nightclub" and "You're not coming back in please step away from the doors"

Hello Pizza,

if what you claim happened, I am sorry for this and I'd like to apologise on behalf of the team member in question. However I have to mention, that your experience stands in strong contrast to all other feedback we had so far. Therefore I'd like to investigate this incident further if you'd be so kind to inform me about names and times. Of course I will also seek clarification with Axle.

If you prefer, you can give me the necessary information in a PM as well of course.

I understand it's hard to take note of who comes in and who goes out of the night club but i'd like to think security can take note of someone in suit wearing a maids outfit, standing next to them in the make shift fursuit lounge for 30 seconds, then trying to get back inside. Pretty notable attire tbh XD And I didn't exactly do a lap of the con space and then try to get back in. In the end I know a lot of suiters got pissed with security being so over the top and started using the side door to go between fursuit lounge and dance which involved stepping over wires and equipment. Securitys general attitude has been brought up several times. Seems they were doing their job correctly but might need a bit of work on the social aspect of things, like I said, working things a little better.

I know I should have taken notes of names and passed them on. But I was in fursuit, it was the last dance, I was having fun with my friends. I didn't exactly have a pen and paper to hand. It wasn't a con ruining moment so I just got a little peeved off then moved on TBH It's worth flagging in my opinion only because i've seen other people noting securitys general attitude.

Again, what you report doesn't match the feedback we got back so far. If there were issues like this, then please name the security operatives in question or at least tell me the names of those other suiters that you mention.

Like this, we got no detail information at all.
Title: Re: Nightclub last admittance policy
Post by: Pizza on May 31, 2014, 21:00:39
I've seen people talking about how several members of security showed up to small events like suspected smoking in rooms, also an attendee being threatened to have their camera taken from them for taking photos near the pool without really realising. Like I said I was in fursuit and trying to have fun so didn't run and grab a piece of paper to jot names down. I understand that you can't investigate further without names but like I said, I thought it was worth mentioning that some members of security were lacking in social skills and could have worded things a little better at times is all. Especially with the misunderstanding of the nightclub admittance policy. If it was actually written on some paper on the door it would have been much easier to point it out or read it to a suiter asking why they can't be let back in rather than replying with "we've been told we can't let people in"

I am really thankful for security though, and I know they have a very difficult job at the convention keeping everything running and everyone safe.
Title: Re: Nightclub last admittance policy
Post by: Dhary Montecore on May 31, 2014, 21:07:23
I've seen people talking about how several members of security showed up to small events like suspected smoking in rooms, also an attendee being threatened to have their camera taken from them for taking photos near the pool without really realising. Like I said I was in fursuit and trying to have fun so didn't run and grab a piece of paper to jot names down. I understand that you can't investigate further without names but like I said, I thought it was worth mentioning that some members of security were lacking in social skills and could have worded things a little better at times is all. Especially with the misunderstanding of the nightclub admittance policy. If it was actually written on some paper on the door it would have been much easier to point it out or read it to a suiter asking why they can't be let back in rather than replying with "we've been told we can't let people in"

I am really thankful for security though, and I know they have a very difficult job at the convention keeping everything running and everyone safe.

I will try and address appropriate behaviour among my team more in depth from now on. Thank you for your feedback, we will act accordingly. :)
Title: Re: Nightclub last admittance policy
Post by: Kyyanno on June 02, 2014, 21:19:49
Re: the 15 minute rule;

Why do we even have this rule? We've never done it before, so why now? O.o?
Title: Re: Nightclub last admittance policy
Post by: Dhary Montecore on June 02, 2014, 22:09:26
Re: the 15 minute rule;

Why do we even have this rule? We've never done it before, so why now? O.o?

Because the security team has been instructed to do so. This rule will be dropped next year, we can stop ranting about it now. ;)
Title: Re: Nightclub last admittance policy
Post by: Mooie on June 07, 2014, 13:36:57
I found security this year to be very over the top with a lot of things especially the admittance and restriction policies. It was intimidating sometimes and maybe they could have worded things better. There is a big difference between. "I'm really sorry, if you leave you cannot go back in as we have an admittance policy, you can see it written here on the door of the nightclub" and "You're not coming back in please step away from the doors"

I was one from the security who was stationed at the last dance, who also found this policy to be a bit odd, but since none of us standing there at the time, didn't get an update on the policy, we felt we had to start enforce it.

If I ever expressed myself in a bad way, like stated, I'm honestly really sorry for this.  I cannot remember saying anything like it, but considering there for a moment ended up being quite a big group of people outside the entrance to the night club, who clearly wasn't happy about the policy, I had to answer a number of them at the same time, which all-in-all made the situation momentarily tense.

As the dance continued, after the set deadline, we got updated to allow people in, which we then did.  We are of course sorry that this have upset previously turned away people, who then saw others entering the night club.  This will, from what I know, not happen again.

Also, the policy stated that no new admittance was to be 15 minutes prior to the end, but with quite a number of people coming and going, it was unfeasible to distinguish between those who've been in before and those who haven't.  Also, who was only out for a cool-down and who was coming back after an hour?  But, as mentioned, this will not happen again.

Once again - if I ever expressed myself in a way which was either intimidating, threatening or in an otherwise not desired way, I deeply apologies for this.  Regardless if I did or not, I will take this feedback to me and further make sure I express myself in a respectful manner.